In late June/early July this year testing was complete on our leaking windows and doors at our Oxley Woods eco house.
A report was compiled, explaining why Wood Newton and George Wimpey believed the house has had such severe water ingress, and remedial work was expected to be carried out quite soon afterwards.
After a while, we were given a date in August. Then a date in September. Then another date in September. As highlighted in a previous post, we simply have not been being told the whole picture, or even the whole truth. It’s a terribly frustrating situation.
Anyway, on Monday morning we received a letter from George Wimpey customer service, compiled on the previous Friday. The letter advises that the tests on our new windows have been completed (not the first time we’d heard this) and had passed on all fronts. I will now quote some of the letter directly…
Having said this I am very mindful that I previously advised you that orders had already been submitted, which was clearly incorrect due to the tests which were requested to be fully completed prior to manufacturing. Now the tests are complete and results (albeit verbally at present are good), I would with your agreement like to set up a meeting with John Green and Nigel Mitchell to go through in detail the results of the tests, the drawings and specification of your replacement windows to put your mind at rest for the pending fitting schedule.
If you are happy for us to arrange said meeting, I would be looking to arrange for week commencing 28th September 2009 onwards, once the full written tests results are in Wood Newton’s hands
May I take this opportunity once again to apologise for any confusion in time frames and indeed hope that if you are agreeable this meeting will benefit you greatly.
OK. So this sounds positive. But, and it seems there’s ALWAYS a but…
I can’t arrange a meeting inside office hours for the week commencing 28th September. I stated as such in an email reply, requesting the meeting be put forward to the previous Friday, or be held outside of office hours so I may attend.
I don’t feel it’s fair to say why, as it’s personal to the third party, but the meeting could not be put forward to this week. The reason given raised serious doubts in my mind about the meeting taking place as assured in the above letter. In fact, I put this in my reply to George Wimpey…
This feels like another pending chapter of our ongoing farce. I truly hope this is not the case.
Well, this afternoon a reply came back from a separate member of George Wimpey customer service, who had been on site today in a meeting with Nigel, and other Wood Newton and George Wimpey management.
Here’s an extract of that email:
…he also thinks it would be better if they could attend the meeting with a copy of the report with regard to the Windows in their possession and they do not expect to receive that for approximately another 14 days
Can you see the discrepancy here?
It’s amazing how many times this is being pushed back, and even when customer service management say sorry, and apparently attempt to put things right, the following afternoon it’s all back again to changing schedules and “confusion in time schedules”.
I seriously don’t know who or what to believe anymore. It’s so confusing. And so, so disheartening.
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Some snippets from NHBC’s web site, if things don’t improve you could give them a call. Might give TW/WN the kick up the rear they seem to need.
“If you discover any defects or damage in the first two years from the date of your Insurance Certificate, you must report these to the builder. The builder must put right any defect or damage to your home, within a reasonable time scale.”
“NHBC Resolution Service
If the builder fails to put right the problems, NHBC will usually offer a Resolution Service, which aims to resolve disputes between you and the builder. Under the Resolution Service, we can also help arrange the work needed to put things right if the builder fails to do so.”
Paul, do you have any idea of whether the design and testing of ‘your’ new windows is one intended to fix specific problems with your house design, or whether they are intended for use on other properties as well? – e.g. on current new builds as well as any previous properties with problems?
If the latter, it would be interesting to know whether the timescale indicated to you will have implications for the build speed of properties currently under construction…
Andy re. NHBC. “A reasonable timescale” sounds completely open to interpretation. It could easily be claimed by Wimpey and Wood Newton that with the BRE tests etc. they are moving as fast as possible.
The fact they keep moving the date they’re telling us isn’t part of what the NHBC cover according to their rather scant customer documents.
The other issue is that George Wimpey don’t appear to cover windows in their two year warranty (although it only refers to “UPVC windows and double glazing” that I can find), that’s the responsibility of “the manufacturer”. Which in this case could either be Wood Newton or another subcontractor. From the information we have it has been described both ways!
Also, as previously mentioned, after two years the NHBC don’t cover window frames either. At least ours went horribly wrong ahead of that fast looming deadline?!
New purchaser: There are currently four window types on site, ours is “type 2″ to the best of my knowledge. This is as far as a visual inspection reveals. There may be more variants in terms of materials or smaller details.
The details we have been provided for the replacements do not match ANY of the windows currently on site. Then again, the details for the doors we’re supposed to currently have don’t match our doors either. So who knows?!
But at this meeting we’re supposed to be having, we should find out more. At this stage we have no idea what these replacement windows actually look like for certain!
It feels to us as though a process of trial and error has been used so far on site (Wimpey didn’t offer a special tester’s rate to house buyers though) but we’re hoping that with the BRE tests and the new design/construction all problems will be resolved once and for all.
We have heard some people express the view that these are new technology and people should “expect” problems. I strongly disagree with that principle, but also believe that timber framed windows have been around for quite some time, and are hardly “new technology” in their own right.
Too true Paul, a reasonable time could mean anything. But you have had water leaks for over a year with no solution. I personally would have thought 1year+ is more than a reasonable time to sort the problem. However if I was you, I would probably be willing to wait that bit longer in the hope that the solution offered has been tested properly and is going to work.
Again with that situation, they have tried to fix the issues a number of times.
They “fix” it, it leaks again, they “fix” it, it leaks again… They fixed it in November 2008, it didn’t leak again (that we noticed) until May 2009… This is why we didn’t go with ITV, because we do feel they have been trying to fix things. They’ve just been incapable up to this point!
With your second point I completely agree, we’ve been talking a lot with Nigel and always said we’d rather work with them, wait, and get the job done properly. This is one reason why all the bodges and temporary “fixes” we have endured are so upsetting.
It does feel like this SHOULD be the end of the saga, assuming we’re not put off indefinitely (being a doom monger there I know).
I would also hope the testing and lessons learned from our property will help all residents, present and future. However, I’ve seen that leaks have been “fixed” on some properties using what was described to us in a letter as “purely cosmetic” methods, along with the dreaded mastik. Even AFTER the testing was carried out on our property. It’s confusing at best.
Nigel, it has to be said, really is a saving grace in all these problems. He doesn’t have enough power in my opinion, because he’s been the most supportive and helpful person we’ve met, along with Wes, who isn’t here so much now it seems. I would happily employ either Nigel or Wes as a site manager if we ever got to carry out our self build dream, they seem to take pride in their job and know what they’re talking about on a wide range of building issues.
Incidentally, the original “28th September” letter arrived today in the post. Glad I emailed or it would be even more confusing!
Another update on this.
Today I have received an email from Wimpey customer service. It looks like they’ve done some extra legwork and had it confirmed the report will be with Wood Newton on Monday via email, and a few days later by post.
That’s great news, and it looks like the “14 days” that appeared on Tuesday via Wood Newton wasn’t correct after all.
Hopefully soon we’ll be able to sit down and go through all the facts with Wood Newton and Wimpey, and get a time schedule of works arranged.
Fingers crossed.